Strategies for Pharmacy Purchasing: Navigating Challenges, Channeling Success

Optimize Contracts and Utilize Secondaries

Lauren Biscaldi: Hi everybody. Thank you for joining us today. I'm Lauren Biscaldi, managing editor of Drug Topics and Calvin, I am going to turn things over to you to introduce yourself.

Calvin Hunsicker: Awesome. Thank you, Lauren. And looking forward to having our conversation today. Calvin Hunsicker, I'm a pharmacist and founder of SureCost. I've been in pharmacy business my entire life. I won't say how long that is but I own and operated retail pharmacy, long term care pharmacy infusion, durable medical equipment. I was vice president of operations for a large long term care provider then became head of the inventory management and purchasing for that operation. We had roughly, I think, about 90+ locations across the country and were buying about $800 million in products. So centralized that, provided millions of dollars savings to the organization. I left that company and then founded SureCost and about 20 years ago and SureCost is a smarter purchasing solution, and we help pharmacies manage their vendor relationships, providing transparency and optimizing their ordering process.

LB: How does understanding the contract between the pharmacy and their primary vendor help pharmacists optimize their purchasing options?

CH: Yeah, it's a great question. And it's an area that, you know, a lot of pharmacies don't fully understand. I think, you know, we have customers that you know, fully understand their agreement, obviously, you know, understand the rebate and compliance aspect to the agreement. And then you know, there are those that actually just sign the agreement and you know, kind of trust the relationship that they have with their wholesaler. Some of the areas that is really important for pharmacy to look at is understanding the agreement and what it contains in terms of like the total volume, you know, a lot of the agreements have volume commitments that you're looking to purchase through that primary vendor. And then there's penalties and or, you know, discounts for either being below or above those commitments. So that's a really critical piece to understanding because, you know, again, depending on your market, those things could change, and you just need to know how much wiggle room you have in that before actually, it either is a detriment, you know, in the case where they're, you know, not giving you the full cost minus that you think you might be getting, which would be a you know, penalty to your bottom line. Or, you know, you have some opportunity for growth and knowing as your company grows, your pharmacy grows, you're going to receive additional discounts. The other is around the total commitment for generic compliance, and this is a tough area in the standpoint for pharmacies to really get a handle on understanding where they are with that. And there's most of the agreements have rebates, their performance rebates tied to those generics. So, and in some cases, there's cost of goods to the brand product that are also tied to that commitment. And so, with the generic there are most wholesaler agreements have where you want to drive to their source program. And so, if you're committed to driving to those items, you have to understand what your current market share is, you know, how much of a percent of generic spend you would buy and then of that, there's a subset that's carved out that's the, you know, the vendors source products. And because there's a kind of a natural de-inflation of generics, you know, that that kind of erodes that percentage and there's also that's competing against you know, higher cost branded product. Brands, you know, have gone up double digits in the past year, over a year. This past several years has been in the upper single digits. However, new agents that come on the market, some of these newer drugs that patients are on are very expensive, you know, thousands of dollars and so that affects your ratio and can affect that in a negative way. And so just really understanding where you are at, kind of understanding the market and where you're kind of going with that is important. And then there's also carve outs when you know the wholesaler is going to give you a cost minus there are a carve outs for those items. So, you know, whatever the agreement is that you have with your primary you want to look at what drugs are carved out of that brand cost minus. Most of those are, could be at market price, which could be you know, plus or minus the wholesale acquisition costs. So, you don't have quite, I guess it wasn't really understanding what that impact is to you is really key importance for pharmacies. And in some of the wholesalers will provide you kind of where you're at and metrics in terms of your compliance but that usually lags you won't see that information until that month or quarter is passed. So, you know, a product like SureCost, gives you that information real time. So, you get that transparency, being able to see where you're at from a generic compliance standpoint, and then you also want to compare when you're looking at driving the source items, driving the source items makes sense from a compliance standpoint, but also, in some cases, it costs more to drive to those source items. And understanding the value of doing that because there's an aggregate gain potentially for hitting market share and hitting that rebate for compliance. But then there's also a loss because of what that product is costing you over what the market price is. So being able to have a system like SureCost that actually can do that math for you because a lot of pharmacies just kind of take it at face value and say, “Hey, I know I'm paying x for this.” Sometimes they don't even factor in what the rebate net cost is. So really understand what your dead net cost is and then how that impacts your contract. When you're looking at buying something outside your contract is really important. And then lastly is really just auditing, being able to ensure that you're getting what you're paid, basically paying for what you're being but those prices are so you want to make sure from an invoice standpoint, those invoices are being checked against your contract prices to make sure those are the correct prices. So those are things to really take into account with your primary vendor and that the relationship they have. And then there's, I guess a final comment on this is that, you know, the wholesaler is going to try to you know, keep you in that meeting those compliance ratios which is fine like I said, there's discounts for it. But in the event that product is not carried by the primary vendor and let's say you're now forced to not buy a source product because it's not in stock, or you're forced to go outside the primary vendor, having that data is really important to be able to go back to the vendor to say, “Hey, look, I was trying to be compliant. I couldn't be compliant because you didn't have this item in stock, or you subbed me to another product.” So again, a product like SureCost is going to provide you that that data which has armed, our pharmacies, our customers with that information to be able to effectively negotiate and work with their wholesaler. At times when things aren't aligned and they're not meeting their targets because of unavailability of product or because of substitutions that occur.

LB: What kind of, you know, purchasing opportunities or other benefits might secondary vendors open up for pharmacists?

CH: Sure. The last I talked about in the last question, yeah, obviously your primary vendor is important, and pharmacies need a primary vendor and obviously you want to try to comply as best you can. However, you know, primary vendor can't provide everything there are product shortages. So, you know when a product isn't available through your primary vendor, you want to be able to make sure that you can secure that product from another source. And then the other piece of it is really just the transparency keeping your primary vendor honest. Making sure that the prices that they're giving you are at market, and if not, you want to have a way to be able to compare that and again, you still want to drive to the primary vendor to meet your obligations and commitment with the agreement. And again, SureCost has tools to do that, to automate that for the pharmacy so you don't have to you know, look at every transaction which would be literally impossible to do to make sure that you're being compliant and that this purchase isn't going to hurt you. However, we've found that with our customers, two thirds of the savings that they realize is actually outside the top 200 products. When I say top 200, these are the generics that they purchase, both in dollar volume that that meet that top 200 of their total spend. And of those items outside of that, two thirds of the savings the pharmacy realizes is not those items and typically pharmacies because of time you know, they really don't have time to kind of look at those top 200 and they think they're going to get the best value by doing that. And there are some use cases for doing that. However, in many cases, the top 200 products are the ones that the primary vendor wants to get because they're the highest volume highest dollar and so by trying to secure those products elsewhere, actually can be a detriment to your primary vendor agreement. So again, being able to understand how that impacts your primary vendor, and both in terms of your relationship and in terms of your rebates and discounts is really critical and important for optimizing your spend and realizing those savings that you could actually be getting.

The Lowest Price Isn’t Always the Best Option
Lauren Biscaldi: You know, when it comes to purchasing, you know, why do pharmacies and pharmacists need to do more than just buy the lowest priced item every time?

Calvin Hunsicker: Well, you know, there are a couple of factors. You know, one is kind of I mentioned earlier is the primary vendor agreement. You know, in some cases that product that the vendor is wanting you to purchase is not the lowest price product even, you know, even within the product mix that they have. And when I say product mix, we're talking about the interchangeable, the generic equivalent product that they have. So those items aren't necessarily the best priced items. And again, understanding what that cost difference is, you know, for me to be compliant and again, this applies both within the primary vendor but also, you know, if you have secondary vendors, what is the cost of me being compliant and what do I gain from that rebate, you know, cost of goods discount by doing that? And so, and actually, in multiple cases, it's actually better to buy that compliant item because it's going to meet your generic compliance ratio and the rebate of that is going to be greater than the discount that you might or the savings that you might get from purchasing an item outside sort of secondary. So again, having a system like SureCost that actually understands the math behind that helps the pharmacies real time understand which products they should or shouldn't be doing, you know, to comply within the, the source items. So that's one example of potentially paying more for a product where you know, the lowest price isn't necessarily the best option. The other is there is a cost to change in MDC, for pharmacy operationally. So, you know, pharmacies now you know, I switched to MDC to save a penny, and but switching MDC does take time you have to change that in your pharmacy system. If you have automation there's a cost to change in your automation because a lot of the cassettes are calibrated for individual drugs. So, there's a cost to change that cassette can be upwards of $75 or more per drugs. So really understanding the cost of what that is, and then there's the communication to patients. You know, hey, this isn't the right drug, you know, is this the right thing that you dispense? So there's, there's that piece of it, that takes your staff time or your time, you know, with your patients, so it's really important to understand what is the total cost of change and the drug and again, SureCost actually has a tool built into it that you can set that and our system will place that automatically based on pricing changes your volume to determine did I exceed that cost and if so, sure, it makes sense to switch that MDC. And then the last piece is around insurance. Some of the insurance carriers, a lot of insurance carriers, you know, pay what they call a maximum allowable cost, and that is for the generic globulin. So, there’s going to, there's basically giving you a rate fee for that drug and it's in your best interest to get the lowest price you know, that's where you're going to get the best margin. There are other carriers and again, it's going to depend on the mix of those carriers to your total spend your total sales for those that actually pay on the wholesale acquisition or AWP for the product. So, there's a markup for that and every manufacturer has different AWPs and WACs for their products. Again, this is even within the generic equivalent there are a huge spectrum of WAC and AWP prices within those manufacturers for generic equivalents. So, understanding the spread and the spread is really between your actual cost and that cost includes rebate. So, understanding what that actual cost is to what the AWP or WAC is for that product is really critical, especially given the fact of the insurance carrier paying, you know, you have a better price for a potentially higher AWP or higher wholesale acquisition costs product. And so, understanding what those are and then being able to drive to those and manage those in your purchasing process will get you additional margin that otherwise if you were buying the lowest price, you would not receive. So again, SureCost gives you the capability of doing that and managing that. So, it's not something that you have to communicate throughout your organization. It's something that's built into to ShareCost to manage and make sure that's being complied with.

LB: What are some steps that pharmacists can take to better manage all of their purchasing contracts?

CH: So, kind of as we talked earlier, you know, primary vendor contracts are very complex. There's a lot of moving parts to it. There's a lot of moving parts to just pricing in general you know the dynamics in the industry. So, you know having a solution you know, like SureCost that actually does that, that is dynamic, and looks those things are critical because it's not a set and forget it you know these things are dynamic based on patient need based on you know, competitive factors. There's a lot and availability of product. One of the other areas that I think it's important for pharmacists to look at is using a GPO, so group purchasing organization. There are several of them out there for retail, long term care pharmacy, obviously acute care pharmacy so really every discipline, specialty, etcetera. A GPO can serve to help their members and essentially what a GPO does is they're negotiate on behalf of their members for contracts, and they do both generic contracts and branded contracts. Typically, with the wholesaler, the wholesalers’ contracts will take precedent over GPO’s contract. However, it also doesn't necessarily contract on all generic. So, there is some advantage that you might get with the GPO contract on generic products. Certainly, there's advantages on the branded product. So, it is definitely worth your while to evaluate the various GPOs what they have what they offer. And then obviously, if you were to do that, one of the things is to ensure that those contracts are being loaded properly and you're being charged the appropriate price. Again, SureCost, we ensure it's the right product right price. So that's really important. To understand, you know, that as you're being billed for those items, that contracts being honored and if it's not, you know, that you have reference to what that contract is the price that it should be and be able to communicate that back to the vendor for correction. And the other piece of it is really understanding you know, your rebate market and where you sit in that market share. Because that, like I said, is kind of a moving target. It's based on your patient mix, as based on pricing within the industry. So really understanding where you're at in your generic compliance ratio and what that those different rebate tiers mean to you and who those rebates are due from because, again, the wholesaler is going to provide you a rebate and a lot of pharmacies is like yeah, I get a rebate check of X every month or every quarter. But they don't really know should that you know X be a Y like is it a different value. So, understanding what that rebate is and what you should be getting is important and where you're at in that market share the other pieces with the GPO because GPOs have the same, they have flat rebates you know, just a consistent rebate for product, but they also have market share rebates as well. But being under being able to know and have that data to say do these rebates from these sources, whether it's through the GPO or the manufacturer, or from the wholesaler are really critical because their dollars to you not dollars to the pharmacy and would actually improve your gross profit your margins within your pharmacy receiving those. So, you want to make sure those amounts are correct.

LB: Kind of moving into, I think, some more practical tips for pharmacists that they can take away from this. You know, what are some best practices that pharmacists can use to measure the value of the inventory that's sitting on their shelves?

CH: Yeah, inventory is an area I think is often overlooked. You know, I think, you know, pharmacies think it's too much time to manage inventory, and more, it's too complex. So, a lot of pharmacies kind of do what they've always done. I mean, we're kind of, we're creatures of habit in the sense that, you know, hey, I bought this bottle from this source last time, I'm just going to do the same thing and they do that over and over again. Again, by doing that, it kind of breaks all the things we talked about earlier. In the sense that there's missed opportunities, really not understanding how that that impacts your agreements, and if there's other opportunities out there for that product from a procurement standpoint. So that's one aspect of it, but the other is really the inventory itself. Because of like I said earlier, newer drugs, some of these drugs are thousands of dollars, you know, in some cases, tens of thousands of dollars. So having a product on your shelf, that's not being utilized and having visibility that is critically important. Because that's cash, that's cash that you'd have to pay employees cash, you'd have to buy, to grow your business, and to buy other things to improve your operations. And so having knowledge of what that inventory is and how that's being used is very critical for pharmacy. So minimally, a pharmacy should be doing physical inventory. So, and physical inventory, this can be done quarterly, it can be done annually, you know, the least case would be annually just to have a benchmark of what you have. And then you'd want to bump that against what your utilization is of those products. So, you'd want to know hey, you know, pharmacy typically you'd want to at least be turning that inventory, at least monthly. You know, we have clients that are turning 18, 20 times. So, you know, their inventory is literally turning multiple times a month. And the more you turn that inventory, the more profitable you'd be for a couple reasons. One is, like we talked about, generics continued to go down in price typically. So having, you know, a lot of generics on the shelf actually isn't in your best interest because typically those continue to become more competitive. Again, it depends on the lifecycle of a generic when they come out on the market. Typically, they're higher priced. So, you know, that price is going to erode much quicker. And then once that product is out, and you know, there's tons of competition and folks, you know, manufacturers start pulling out of that market. You'll see times where that generic price will increase. So being aware of those dynamics and when that happens, and also on the branded side when price increases come in play. Being able to hedge that and potentially do a buy in on those is critical to ensure you're getting you know from an investment standpoint and inventory. You're getting the best value there. But in the end, like I said, it's really important that your utilization of that inventory versus what you have in stock is being optimized and ultimately the best way of doing that is through a perpetual inventory solution. You know, because that solution is automated, someone going to the shelf point that and I think we use, you know, three bottles, you know, a month of this and you know, so the order three. It's actually looking at the dynamics within your system, you know, how many days of inventory do you have, or if you want to do just in time inventory, that the system actually gets that inventory a week before it's actually going to be dispensed. That is the most optimal because you have the inventory the right inventory at the right time. Because overstock, as we mentioned, you know, its inventory, its dollars sitting on the shelf and those dollars depreciate pretty rapidly because the longer it sits on the shelf, the less credit or no credit actually happens. So, you really want to reduce the time that inventory is sitting on the shelf, that you have excess inventory. And there's a couple ways of doing that. Obviously if you have multiple locations you want to optimize that inventory through those locations. So instead of another location that might have a need for instead of them ordering it from the vendor there actually could request that from the location that has excess inventory. So, there you're optimizing the use of that inventory is which is the cheapest way within your organization. The other would be to return to the best source. And again, if you're doing it timely, your wholesaler will give you, you know, depending on time, depend on your agreement, you know, potentially up to full credit for that product. And as time goes on it becomes less and less. And then ultimately after that you'd have to look at like a reverse logistics company. And then you know, finally, if that's not say resalable, returnable then it's destruction. So, being able to optimize those is critical, obviously under stock is the other scenario where you don't have enough inventory. And in that scenario, there's, you know, a negative impact to patient care, and that negative impact on patient care, obviously, you're affecting the quality of life for the patient, but you're also potentially impacting your business. Because of the patient satisfaction isn't high. They may or may look for another pharmacy to go to, which would be a loss of business or revenue for you. So, you know, manage inventory is critical. Again, SureCost has tools to optimize that for our customers. You know, we work with all the all the pharmacy management systems in terms of getting dispensing data, that dispensing data is managed at a product group level, which is again, unique in the sense that these are interchangeable products. As you know, in pharmacy these things change because of availability because your contract so you're moving NDCs you know from time to time, and so when you're looking at replenishment you want to look at the whole market basket for replenishment, not just a particular NDC and SureCost does both one obviously you have to manage at the NDC level in terms of what you have on stock or what's on order, but when you're looking at the actual replenishment of that product, you want to look at the total because they are interchangeable. So, from a dispensing standpoint, you might have 2 or 3 different manufacturers of product. You want to make sure you're using all 3 of those products, not just whatever NDC that's in the pharmacy system. You want to make sure those are being fully utilized. And then also having tools to be able to identify what is excess, if it is excess and I have other locations, being able to suggest those at the time of order, things like that, that SureCost has to optimize that for our customers.

Get the Products You Want at the Prices You Expect
Lauren Biscaldi: Kind of building on that, what is one thing that pharmacists can do to ensure that they're, you know, always receiving the products that they paid for? And I think maybe perhaps more importantly, you know, at the prices that they agreed to pay for those products.

Calvin Hunsicker: Yeah, and that's again, that's an area that you know, I think, typically pharmacy you know, in the past has been kind of a paper type, pencil type of business in the sense that, you know, when orders are received in, you know, the folks that are receiving product are kind of going against the invoice and either checking that off. We know there's pharmacies that kind of use the sticker method in the sense that you know, they'll sticker product and then whatever stickers are left, the product was shorted. But it is critical to really understand what product you're receiving, and how that compares against you know, the invoice, what you're paying for, because you want to make sure you're actually buying what you're, what you're being billed for, and receiving that product correctly. And then the other component of that is the substitution of product. A lot of pharmacies aren't really aware. If they if you're ordering through the wholesaler system and you're ordering, you know, drug A, that vendor doesn't have it and a substitute to drug B. You don't really know the impact of the cost of you know, the initial drug A to now getting drug B. So being able to identify that piece that to know hey, I actually tried to get drug A, they substituted drug B. I know that that event happened, and I also know what that event cost me. And again, there's kind of kind of multiple levels in this. You know, one is just that that pure substitution that cost difference. The other like I mentioned earlier, is the potential impact to your generic compliance with the primary vendor, because that might have been a source that moved to now a non-source. So, and then the opposite can happen as well. So just understanding what that is, and what that cost impact is to you. And so that's critical piece. The other is really just keeping the vendor honest in terms of the catalog and the pricing that they have, you know, certainly a vendor can send a catalog with any price depending on your pharmacy system. Some systems look at best price, but that needs to be audited, because you need to make sure because your system may switch to that drug, but how do you know you're actually being invoiced that actual quoted price? So again, in SureCost we're doing that real time we're actually auditing the invoice price against catalog and we do that every step of the ordering process we do that you know we have a suggested or expected price at the time of order and then once that order is submitted, we verify that against the acknowledgement we verify that against the invoice and then once it's received, we're marrying that receiving data to the invoice to make sure that it's the right price, right product, and right quantity. And if any of those things, there's a variation a those we're reporting that to you and all those have costs associated with them. So really understanding that and being able to be active in terms of providing that data back to your wholesaler, either for credit or replacement product is critical. And other areas, you know, hazardous product awareness. So, NIOSH codes, you know, knowing that this product, you know, is potentially hazardous and has a NIOSH code associated with it. At the point of receiving is important piece to protect your staff and create that awareness. Again, at SureCost we have that information that we present to the receiver whoever is doing the receiving. And you also want a system that's flexible, you know that that can either do it through a laptop or a PC, which might have a barcode scanner attached to it or are using something you know, more mobile which would be like an iOS or Android phone or tablet to be able to do receiving that you can take anywhere. So, you want a solution that actually provides that type of flexibility for you to streamline and to be efficient plus getting you the information you need at the time that you're doing that work. So again, SureCost provides those things for our customers. And then the last two, there are two more points to kind of focus on one is standardization. Again, you know, if you're using your primary vendor, the primary vendor typically has solutions for receiving but then when you buy from secondaries, you have another way of doing that. So again, using SureCost, because we work with the primary vendors and work with your secondaries. You want to standardize or try to standardize your process for receiving because that provides natural efficiencies because it's the same, you're doing the same way regardless of where that product is coming from. But then even on the workflow standpoint, you know, getting reporting aggregating that information, invoice workflow, ensuring that you're not paying for something that you didn't receive. And then finally, having that integration, go to your accounts payable system, so that those aren't paper invoices, going to somebody that they'll have to enter that information into their accounting system that can all be done electronically. And again, having a system like SureCost, makes that very efficient, where that data is all shared electronically to the accounts payable system. And you know that that data has been validated, you know, who received it when they received it, and if there wasn't a receipt against that, that invoice is held until it's rectified. So that's a critical piece that that pharmacies have, our customers have seen huge value in terms of time savings and also in terms of missed opportunity in the sense that they've found things that they want to make sure they're getting credit for if they didn't have something at SureCost that would have been missed. And then the last piece is DSCSA. So that's the Drug Supply Chain Act that is that you know is in place today. And obviously SureCost supports the requirements today. Moving forward to November 2023, pharmacies are responsible to verify the receipt of product against the vendor, transaction data, ie the proof of origin of that product. So, you know, that burden will move, you know, as of November of next year, to the pharmacy that the pharmacy, you know, is responsible to making sure that it's an original product. It's not, you know, counterfeit or diverted product, and it's being purchased from a reliable source, and they have to be able to report to the vendor have any discrepancies, and they have three days to do that. So, you receive a product, and that product doesn't match. And when I say doesn't match, it's not just the NDC it's actually verifying that it's the right serial number. Every drug that's under DSCSA has its own unique serial number which has a lot number and expiration date as well. So that information has to be verified at point of receipt. And again, SureCost will be in the position at that time to be able to support that for our pharmacies to make sure and the thing is, you know, there are other systems that provide DSCSA, but you don't want to have multiple systems for doing receipt because then how do you move that data around? And that's again, where SureCost is in a great position because we're capable of integrating with pharmacy management systems and other custom systems that the pharmacy might have to get that receipt data to it. So, receiving is still a single process, with SureCost and then it sends that the necessary information out to other systems that might need that within your operations. So that's just a critical piece to be aware of that that's coming and for pharmacies to kind of understand how that will impact their business moving forward.

LB: Those are, you know, all the questions that I had for you on my end, but I wanted to just kind of turn things over to you and see if there were any final thoughts or key takeaways that we maybe didn't discuss that you'd like to touch on to leave our viewers with?

CH: Yeah, I think you know, being a pharmacy owner/manager myself, you know, in the past I know it's, it's an extremely rewarding business. It's fun but it's also extremely challenging. And your time especially, you know, as things become more complex there, you know, obviously there's been staffing shortages, you know, difficulty hiring pharmacists, technicians, difficulty in retaining folks on board, you know, as has added to the challenge plus, you know, with COVID and pharmacies being more proactive and involved in vaccinations which is awesome. It's still yet another strain for pharmacies. So the one thing I do encourage everybody to do, and you know, from a business standpoint, and it's again, it's one of those things that that takes time, but in taking that time, you know, would provide a huge benefit is really understanding your operations really understanding you know, how you can streamline process, especially things that are repetitive, I always say pharmacy is like manufacturing, you know, you're buying raw product and then you're fine lining that product out. So, anything in that step that you can actually do to refine that process to save time is going to allow more time for you to spend with your patients and your staff, which then would result in higher employee satisfaction, customer satisfaction. So those things and kind of specializing and taking that time to kind of focus on those areas is critical. Cost of goods is really one of those areas you have is really your biggest lever in terms of improving your bottom line. Cost of goods for a pharmacy is anywhere between 70 and 80% of your total sales. So, if you were to save 3% your cost of goods, you know, 2+% go to your bottom line. So, you know, that's an area that, you know, is something that you can be effective in. Obviously, you know, from a revenue standpoint, you know, those revenues are kind of capped in terms of reimbursement by third parties. Certainly, there's things you can do there to kind of make sure you're not underbilling for some of the charges that you have. But from a cost standpoint, it is you know, really the biggest lever pharmacies have so, encourage pharmacies to look at that, to really understand their agreements, understand their processes they have in their pharmacy, and look for solutions that actually help them with that. I know SureCost you know, helps our pharmacies save more, you know, we help them stay compliant, we help them work smarter. It is you know, very rewarding for us. We've been very effective at doing it. A lot of our customers we had when we started the company are still with us today. You know, our customers continue to find value with our product and show cause provide solutions through you know, web solutions, as well as mobile, through iOS and Android to really make your day and your staff stay efficient and providing more information for them to manage their job better.

LB: Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to have this conversation with us. I think that was a lot of really good information and some really important kind of action items for pharmacists to you know put into motion as soon as they can. So, thank you again, Calvin, I appreciate it.

CH: Well, thank you so much, Lauren. Really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you